DCNU

wolf_2099 · Post by **wolf_2099** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:05 pm

So.
What are everyones thoughts so far?

Justice League seemed to set up a new universe in which the heroes are fairly new, and don't really know each other.

Since then I have read a variety of the new comics, maybe about 20.

They all seem likes continuations of what was happening before, with some retcons, but nothing we haven't seen in normal comics before.

Justice League set up something, that none of the other comics seem to have followed.

The Batman in JL was new, the cops hated him, yet somehow in his series, he's been at it for a while, has a kid, 2 other robins, so on.
Same kind of problems with Green Lantern.

Which leaves me with this:
Is Justice League supposed to be a prequel to everything else going on now?
If so, then what was the point of a reboot? The timeline thing is a bitch to follow.
How is this streamlined and easily accesable if they're still vaguely referencing all the convuleted big events of the last few years?

This all doesn't add up, timeline wise, or anything.

Add in that I can't quite follow everything because they're still referencing all the stuff they were supposed to have streamlined.

This wasn't particularly streamlined, or particularly well thought out.

I think the comics have been good, and the creative teams good.
However, as a huge reboot for new readers starting from scratch? Stillborn. They needed to spend more time working out a timeline and cutting history.

Tragic Angelus · Post by **Tragic Angelus** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:18 pm

In terms of Timeline:

Justice League takes place roughly 5-6 years ago, while all other books take place now, except for Action Comics, which takes place about 7 months BEFORE JL.

In terms of how books were, I have read a fairly small number of them due to lack of interest and storytelling strength prior to the reboot. However, I have really enjoyed what I've read, and yes they do seem to pick up right where they left off, which is what they said most of them would.

Only a few books were fresh starting, like most of the Superman books. Yet Batman & GL were kicking off right where they were before.

wolf_2099 · Post by **wolf_2099** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:26 pm

Good lord.

How is that supposed to be new reader friendly?

From my point of view, I have done no research on this. What they were doing with the relaunch, etc. I've just read them, and I have a pretty good knowledge of the previous DCU.

I feel a little lost, so I can only imagine how bad it is for new readers.

How the hell in 5-6 years did Batman train 3 robins, have 1 grow up, have a kid before he was Batman, have Batgirl shot and recover, set p a world of Batmen, etc, etc etc. Poorly done DC, poorly done.

I need to read the Supermans again.

I hate timelines. Hate them, hate them, hate them.

What DCNU titles did you pick up? What ones will you continue to pick up? Or what ones will you download to read?

wolf_2099 · Post by **wolf_2099** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:34 pm

I have read:

Batgirl Vol 4 (DCNU)
Action Comics Vol 2 (DCNU)
Batman Vol 2 (DCNU)
Birds of Prey Vol 3 (DCNU)
Catwoman Vol 4 (DCNU)
Detective Comics Vol 2 (DCNU)
Justice League (DCNU)
Nightwing Vol 2 (DCNU)

And am dropping Birds of Prey. The other will stick for at least issue two.

I have:

Aquaman Vol 5 (DCNU)
Batman: The Dark Knight Vol 2 (DCNU)
Flash Vol 4 (DCNU)
Fury of Firestorm (DCNU)
Green Lantern Corps Vol 2 (DCNU)
Green Lantern Vol 4 (DCNU)
Green Lantern: New Gaurdians (DCNU)
Superman Vol 2 (DCNU)
Wonder Woman Vol 4 (DCNU)

Ressurection Man
Animal Man

Left to read.

The only reason I got so many is Marvel has really been pissing me off, so I have dropped a few of their books and decided to splurge on trying DCNU books.

Tragic Angelus · Post by **Tragic Angelus** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:42 pm

Well, the idea is that Superheroes have been around for about 10 years, but the JL only formed about 5-6 years ago.

So apparently, Batman trained 3 Robins in about 10 years. Yet he's also had his back broken and recovered and disappeared and was believed dead leading Dick to have been Batman.

And Superman supposedly still died. And Blackest Night happened. All of that in 10 years. Which makes me assume that Hal went crazy, Coast City was destroyed, he's died, and come back.

A lot of that doesn't make sense at all, I agree. And I can only imagine that new readers have no clue how the timeline fits together.

jedispyder · Post by **jedispyder** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:43 pm

Now that I've read all 52 issues, I can definitely say there are gems and there are dung. There were some surprising books that I thought were good/bad but expected the opposite. Now I won't list the obvious good titles of Action, Detective, Batman, etc but instead choose more of the underdogs for good. And bad is fair game...

Week 1:
Good -
Batwing (I had little hope for this book but it was very interesting and had me go out and actually buy the issue)
OMAC (I had little hope for the team of Didio and Giffen but this was a well-thought out issue)

Bad -
Green Arrow (art was meh, writing was meh, failed to interest me)
Stormwatch (the exposition was horrible with the characters describing their powers to their long-time coworkers)

Week 2:
Good -
Demon Knights (lot of good synergy between the characters and the art was beautiful)
Superboy (I had little hope for this and got it only for Fairchild but was pleasantly surprised by how well Lobdell reintroduced the character)
Grifter (I had no hopes for this but picked it up on a whim and was very surprised, especially since I knew next to nothing of Grifter yet this gave you enough mystery to want to continue reading)

Bad -
Legion Lost (introducing too many characters to a new reader at once with no great use to distinguish them left me confused)
Mister Terrific (I just could not get into the writing, it seemed over the top in places)

Week 3:
Good -
Blue Beetle (from the start making them more like the Green Lanterns had me interesting, very nicely done)
Supergirl (nice reintroduction to the character, loved the coloring)

Bad -
Birds of Prey (just couldn't get into it, to me it wasn't like any the old BoP stuff)
Red Hood and the Outlaws (this book downright pissed me off with the change to Starfire and treating her like a loose whore, naming this worst reboot of everything)

Week 4:
Good -
Voodoo (very simple plot, lovely art, didn't give a lot away but left enough for you to want to buy the next issue)
Green Lantern: New Guardians (a very nice, quick origin for Kyle that captures his character and an ending that makes you go "holy shit!")

Bad -
Superman (way too wordy for a first issue, while it was unique to interlace Clark's article with the actual events the writing was truthfully too advanced at the same time as being too see-through, it just did not work as a newspaper article)
Batman: Dark Knight (I just didn't really dig it, especially the scene of Bruce [out of costume] using a grappling gun to jump buildings and the end retarded reveal of the new One-Face)

Tragic Angelus · Post by **Tragic Angelus** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:49 pm

In terms of what I'm reading, I haven't gotten this week's books, but there aren't many

Books I'm reading:
Justice League
Aquaman
Wonder Woman
Green Lantern
Batman
Batwoman
Batgirl
Frankenstein Agent of S.H.A.D.E.
Stormwatch

Possibly:
Green Lantern New Guardians

I've found my list has shrunk considerably, where I originally planned to get Flash, Superman, Firestorm, Green Arrow Teen Titans, and New Guardians for sure, but cut them all due to less interest, and news about all of the series that made me realize I didn't want to read them (No Wally in Flash, less interest in GA, etc). New Guardians I've pulled the first issue, but if I don't get a copy I won't cry over it. I just wanted to see if it was any good to see if I'd want to get it.

I added a few other Marvel books, especially with new X-Books coming out and picking up Amazing Spider-Man.

wolf_2099 · Post by **wolf_2099** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:30 pm

Have you guys been surprised at what you actually decided to end up buying?

I liked all the ones I had planned, but I also added a bunch of books.

Tragic Angelus · Post by **Tragic Angelus** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:42 pm

Yes.

Passing on books like GA and Flash surprised me, and I had never planned to get a book like Frankenstein until I finished the Flashpoint Frankenstein mini. While I don't care much for the art just yet, I still really like the book. I also like the concept of Stormwatch, even though the dialogue was, as stated, very very bad. I'm hoping that was solely for new readers and it'll get better.

Otherwise, not very surprised as these were the ones I really wanted to get. I'm more surprised at how many I opted out of when it came down to it.

wolf_2099 · Post by **wolf_2099** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:07 pm

Is Grifter worth picking up?

jedispyder · Post by **jedispyder** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:23 pm

I don't know about others' taste, but it really surprised me. You don't get a lot of answers right away except for a teasing of who the character is and that he's trying to find out what happened to him. The first issue's setup really appealed to me with the past and present interlaced.

Mr Wallstreet · Post by **Mr Wallstreet** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:00 am

I have yet to read Aquaman, JL:Dark, All Star Western, Firestorm & Voodo but on the whole I've been very happy with them. Nothing has me speechless but its more than enough to keep me coming back.

The timeline is confusing me too so I just don't bother with it. It also helps that you don't need to really understand the timeline to enjoy the books, at least thats the approach I'm taking. It seems to me that its still being hammered out by Didio, Johns, Lee & whoever and its still a work in progress so we'll see.

So far I've picked up:

JLA
Batgirl
Wonder Woman
Catwoman
Mr. Terriffic
Batwoman
All Star Western
Voodoo
Aquaman
JL:Dark
Fury of Firestorm

And all of them ranged from very good to great. The weakest, unfortunately, was Mr. Terriffic. This was the one title I wanted to do really well. It was a combination of an ugly color, meh art & an okay story. Nothing at all in this title wowed me. Wonder Woman & Batgirl were among the best reads but that may change when I crack open this weeks books.

I've been wanting to get more into Marvel as well but its just not happening. Too many shitty things going on there; perhaps when things cool down. I will say their new Defenders title has my interest piqued as well as the Wolverine & the X-Men title. I'm surprised it took them 30 years to make Wolverine the leader of the X-Men given his staggering popularity.

I'll also be checking out the series by Aspen scheduled to hit the stands in Oct: Haunted City. Horror in New York! And I don't just mean in my basement

The only new title I wound up picking up was Voodoo. It wasn't part of my initial list but we'll see how it goes.

Also, I know it's Barry Allen, but seeing Tragic pass on a Flash title is the sign of the end times.

Tragic Angelus · Post by **Tragic Angelus** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:03 pm

Wally, are picking up the two Buffy Season 9 titles from Dark Horse as well?

I also read Mr. Terrific, and while it was enjoyable, I didn't care enough to get it regularly. The story felt rather predictable towards the end but I did like how he has designed quite a lot of amazing things for himself and the world. Very nice touch.

Tragic Angelus · Post by **Tragic Angelus** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:27 am

Add this:

Got my books last night, and Superman was in my folder so I read that. It wasn't bad, but it felt like it was longer than most comics. I was also very tired when I read it, so that may've factored in.

Alisha got her books, and she had Firestorm, Flash, and Teen Titans so I got to read those as well. Teen Titans wasn't bad but I guess I just don't like the concept of government hiding compared to Teen Heroes coming together to get away from their mentors. The best thing about Flash was definitely the art, and I will miss Manapul's art style. Firestorm was interesting, but I felt like there was much much more going on than I realize, and I'm just not sure the pay off for the story will be worth the wait on it.

I also got New Guardians and I have to say I enjoyed it a lot more than I expected. I'll probably stick with that for awhile.

Mr Wallstreet · Post by **Mr Wallstreet** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:41 am

Tragic, I'm picking up both Buffy & Angel & Faith. So, given just the first issues of both of them, Angel & Faith seems to be the better book. A&F is darker in tone and is much more reminiscent of the Angel tv series. I'm glad whatever IDW was doing with it is over. That series was butt ugly.

Mr. T's title was weak but I am more than willing to give it time to get better. I think that with a second string character (or any second string character) that is getting their own title, they need to have one of two things: either a strong writer or a strong artist. You can't give a 2nd character a second string creative team and expect it to do well.

XIII · Post by **XIII** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:24 am

So far, I got:

Justice League (very meh, not coming back for more)
Animal Man (didn't like it, shipping my copy to Cameron)
Batman (excellent, I'll get the TPBs)
Action Comics (not bad but didn't grab me, glad it's not on my pull list)

And on my pull list :
Batwoman (as good as I expected it)
Grifter (alright but nothing spectacular, I'll give it the first arc to convince me I need to stay on)
All Star Western (getting my copy on Tuesday)

I read another bunch of them from downloads but nothing that made me regret I didn't get it.

Mr Wallstreet · Post by **Mr Wallstreet** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:51 am

So far my favorites have been:

1) All Star Western: This was by far my favorite title. It had tons of dialogue, story & art. Usually I read through a title in 3-5 minutes. This one took me almost 10 whole minutes (which is kind of a sad commentary on the state of comics when you can burn through them in the time it takes to take a piss).

2) Wonder Woman: Just a fantastic, fantastic read. Great story & art. Very new reader friendly

3) Aquaman: I love what Johns did with him. Rather than start from the bottom up, and tell an origin story about why you need to care about him, Johns threw Aquaman right into the thick of it and dealt both with action and with the way people see him. I don't how others saw it but I liked it. Art was fabulous. And Arthur getting shot in the face and bleeding was a great scene. His expression is perfect

4) Catwoman/ Batwoman/JLA Aside from the whole Catwoman controversy it was a rather enjoyable book. Batwoman was around the same. It had great art and a solid story. JLA, like everyone said was not as great as it should have been but good enough to stick around for

5) JL Dark & Mr. Terriffic Both these had great concepts and ideas that were hampered by one thing or another. In the case of Mr. Terriffic, it was meh art & story. In JL Dark it was just a really damn weird story. But I'm willing to give both of them a chance. I like Mike Carey so I'll be on board for at least the first 2 story lines.

6) I haven't read Voodoo yet and unfortunately Fury of Firestorm was the worst offender. The racial tension, which seems to be the crux of the story felt really forced and really fake. Usually Simone knows how to write characters without preaching but she didn't do so well over here

XIII · Post by **XIII** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:06 pm

Does this mean you won't stalk her at NYCC?

wolf_2099 · Post by **wolf_2099** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:11 pm

She was co-writing it, so maybe it wasn't her?

Mr Wallstreet · Post by **Mr Wallstreet** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:01 pm

Simone's not coming to NYCC this year, and surprisingly neither is Brian Michael Bendis. Bendis is the Marvel Golden boy so it was surprising to hear he won't be attending.

I realize Simone was co-writing it but you'd think she could could rein in some of the clunkier dialogue. "Why don't we have any black friends?" Geez, that was so cliche, I put it down and skipped to another title