Wonder Woman: New Look, New History

[Tragic Angelus]

Jim Lee has re-designed Wonder Woman for the new direction under JMS as her writer

From Newsarama:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/new-wonder-woman-costume-100629.html

But with that, she has a new history it seems.

From DCU Source Blog:
http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2010/06/29/unveiling-wonder-woman%e2%80%99s-new-costume-direction/

The Gods, for reasons of their own but which may have something to with their survival and perhaps the survival of Earth itself, have changed the timeline. In the new timeline, years ago the Gods removed their protection from Paradise Island, and left it vulnerable to attack. And attacked it was. Led by a dark figure, a veritable army descended upon the Island, equipped with weapons that could kill even the Amazons. Outgunned, doomed, Hippolyta gave over her three-year-old daughter to a handful of guardians who spirited her away as Hippolyta led one last desperate battle against the forces that had come to destroy all she had created. In that final battle, she and most of the Amazons were killed, though some managed to escape.


What remains to be seen is if this storyline/alteration is permanent or something that Diana will 'fix' by the end of the story.

The look debate is one numerous people, us included, have gotten into more than once. I like the look, but not as a permanent one. To me, it's just not the iconic Wonder Woman look I grew up with, even if that look was not practical, fight able, or anything like that. DC to me has always been symbolism and legacy based, and I always thought the Large WW and Red, Blue, and Yellow were signature to her, like Superman's look.

I'll see how this plays out, but the Loss of Simone as writer coupled with this story and look I'm not a fan of yet really aren't pysching me up for this book.

[Tragic Angelus]

A few hours after the news hit, Newsarama put up an interview with JMS about the change in look and history.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/jms-talks-wonder-woman-100629.html


Personally, I feel he came off a bit condescending, and a few things I've seen from other writers as well seem to indicate they may think so as well. As a current reader, he made implications about WW readers that, for some may be true, but I feel are to large of generalizations to be 'true'.

It's becoming radically clear that this story is a year long, and her history will most likely be turned back for the most part, and the new look is going to apparently be overall reaction dependent over a years worth of time. If the look lasts beyond a year I'll be a bit surprised but not much if they try to stick this out. JMS mentioned some might stick depending on how people reacted over time, but he hopes they wouldn't undo a revision and retcon just because people dont accept it right away.

I plan to post of review of the 600 issue as it is after I read it, along with the 700s from Batman and Superman now that all 3 milestones are out. So we'll see how things roll along over the rest of the week.

[Mr Wallstreet]

I like the look, but not as a permanent one. To me, it's just not the iconic Wonder Woman look I grew up with, even if that look was not practical, fight able, or anything like that. DC to me has always been symbolism and legacy based, and I always thought the Large WW and Red, Blue, and Yellow were signature to her, like Superman's look.

^This

[wolf_2099]

I think it's an awful look thats dated by 15 or 20 year already. The choker? Size too small leather jacket? Gloves?

They all look like they're from the girls I went to school with in grade 8.

[Sandman]

I think it's an awful look thats dated by 15 or 20 year already. The choker? Size too small leather jacket? Gloves?

They all look like they're from the girls I went to school with in grade 8.

yeah I thought the same thing! this is screaming 90's to me and i do not get it. Imean I guess I can deal with the clothes change but the change in her story? hell no! you are taking the amazons out of Wonderwoman??!!

[Tragic Angelus]

It's basically seeming that her history has been changed. Paradise Island was destroyed 20 years ago just after Diana was "born" and a small group of Amazons escaped, taking her with them since her Mother was killed, and have been living in "an urban setting" (New York? LA? Any big city I suppose) and Diana was raised there rather than Paradise Island. So she has some Amazonian ways but set in this 'street smart attitude' kind of thing. And her mission is apparently to either fix history or figure out why it was changed by the gods.

My guess is that in a year she'll 'fix' it and restore the timeline. It's being referred to in the story as Diana's Odyssey and she has to overcome challenges to 'get home' in a way. It's basically the myth recast in modern day I suppose, with aspects of Hercules tasks possible thrown in. The story concept, so long as this isn't a permanent rewrite (because God knows Wonder Woman has had enough of those and is confusing enough) could be a good one. If this history stays on tho I cant say it'll go over well at all.

[wolf_2099]

After the (to me) year long failure of superman: world of new krypton, by very good writers, I have absolutely no interest in another year long story that seems worse, even if it is by JMS.

[Mr Wallstreet]

Absolutely none of everything JMS has said or done bothers me.

I don't mind the fact that WW got a makeover, as previously stated, it'll be temporary at best, and was probably made to suit the storyline JMS was writing. I also don't mind the retooling of Wondy's origin. Unlike One More Day, this isn't an editorially mandated permanent change either and also part of JMS' kickoff run.

Lots of people have said varying things about her new costume ranging from good to bad. To me it doesn't look ugly nor does it look great. It's just average and suits me just fine.

The one thing I am hesitant, yet cautiously optimistic about is the way JMS is approaching the story. Will it be a single 12 issue storyline over 12 months or will it be several smaller storylines over the course of a year.

[Tragic Angelus]

Honestly, I look at those to types of stories as one and the same. A twelve issue story all in one is the same to me as 2-3 small stories that make up a bigger one, but it's just been retitled in chapters or something.

Like "Odyssey: Part 1" being 4 issues, "Part 2" being 3-4 and then "Part 3" being 4-5 or however many he wants to do and so on. I mean to me, it's all still "Odyssey" so I don't mind it being broken down. But it looks like he's on both WW and Superman for a year long story at least, so we'll find out pretty soon.


The only thing that really bothers me are some of the comments he made in the Newsarama article, regarding fans and supporting cast related to Wonder Woman. Some fans might think or act the way he described but I felt it was too generalized at times.

[Mr Wallstreet]

I read the article and I'm not really seeing where he came off as condescening. I think it's more that JMS & the fans may not see eye to eye about what Wonder Woman's problems are. What JMS considers character flaws i.e. the large supporting cast, the fans probably see as strengths - and when JMS said it the way he did, hey, may have come off as a condescending prick.

He definitely has strong opinions about WW & the fans and I think he may not be bothering to present them in a respectful way towards the fans or WW.

Any particular line or excerpt you have in mind that rubs you the wrong way?

[Tragic Angelus]

A lot of it had to do with the supporting cast comments like this one:

"When writers don't know what to do with a character, they build up the supporting cast and universe to kind of hide that fact. After a while, you can no longer see the character for the underbrush."

To me, that is possible with some writers, but it all comes up to how they actually use the supporting cast. I felt that Gail had been handling them very well, because honestly Wonder Woman's SC has changed so many times over the years. From her embassy characters under Rucka, the myth and home under Jimenez, and the Apes and Government that worked well with Gail. Stating that when they do that it's a weakness is something I disagree with so long as the SC doesn't become the main focus, which they never did under Gail.

While at the same time, bringing in the Oracle and surviving Amazons... it seems he's building a NEW Supporting cast for his run. That to me seems more of a critique on how everyone else before him did it rather than the act and ability of doing it in general.

Also, I disagree that she has "ossified" in how she hasn't been updated. I felt that each writer has updated and changed her personality, attitude, and actual interaction with the outside world so well that it has kept her updated, but it seems he was more focused on the look, which isn't what keeps regular readers around for the most part, but rather how that character acts, talks, and interacts with others. I don't read Punisher because his motivation, his character, his attitude just isn't my style. Not because he doesn't look a certain way. Look may bring you in, but it's that attitude and characterization that keeps me around.

And yes, there is a definite connection between look and attitude, but until he shows it to work well and more of his story comes out, I can't really analyze that.

[Mr Wallstreet]

I see what you're getting at but I think its a bit more complicated than that and its not being helped by JMS painting everything with a broad brush. Obviously his comments about large supporting casts are false. Look no further than Batman, Green Lantern, or the Flash for evidence of large supporting casts being beneficial to the characters. 2/3rds of Batman's cast consist of orphans, Half of GL's cast consists of other GLs (which take nothing away from him) and the Flashes supporting cast include pretty much everyone in his immediate familyas Flashes and he's not the weaker for it.

I think when JMS mentions large supporting casts covering up a characters flaws he means characters who are popular but aren't well written consistently or top sellers. Superman, Batman, X-Men, Wolverine, Flash, Hulk, GL, Spider-man & Wonder Woman are all popular characters and though sometimes they fall in a slump story or sales-wise they almost always rebound. All of them except for Wonder Woman. Though WW is a popular character, throughout much of her run she has always had trouble breaking into, and staying in, the top 20 sales bracket and I think a part of it is due to every writer having a shaky grasp of the character and rather than trying to understand the character and tell a good story, they just come in with the mindset of trying to redefine her to suit what they think she is so she'll fit into their stories. And of course the next writer does the same thing so on and so forth.

Theres nothing wrong with a writer trying to leave his mark on a character but with WW it seems that every writer who comes in set on redefining her rather than just tell strong stories. Hell when WW relaunched after IC, there was the whole "Who is WW story" and now 2 writers later JMS is trying to redefine her. Again. When Simone came in, she didn't try and redefine Wondy. She came in and picked up where Piccoult left off and told fantastic stories. Thats what Wondy needs. A good writer who takes what they've got and work to improve. You don't see a revolving door of origins for Batman, Superman, Spider-man (OMD doesn't count b/c it was the first one in over 20 years) Wolverine etc...

Well sorry about the tangent, looks like I had somethings I needed to get off my chest but now I totally see where you're coming from. On the one hand JMS bitches about the character problems and seems to blame the writers for incorrect approach to WW, and in the same breath he does the exact thing he accuses other writers of doing that messed up WW in the first place.

I also agree that her attitude and personality has been updated and changed to reflect the times and JMS seems to believe that her adjustment rests solely on her look rather than her personality.

Yeah, it really does look like JMS really put his foot in his mouth a couple times with that interview...

Here's hoping his run on WW will live up to his hype

[Tragic Angelus]

I was about to say a few things and then you pretty much said them there anyways.

To me, the story is being pushed more as one where "Someone went back in time and changed our world so I have to figure out how to fix it" kind, but instead of 4-6 issues, were we immediately get on the "how do I fix it" track, we're going for a full year of "what is it that's changed, how was it before, and do I want to go back to that IF I can get there?"

He's made mention that her quest is to figure out how to restore Paradise Island, but also stated that maybe she won't want to, or maybe she'll keep some of this "new" persona if she does. Origin wise, I'd say she's still roughly the same but for the time being her origin has been altered and we'll get around to fixing it. Maybe.

So I can't view it as a total overhaul until that final chapter comes in and Diana does or doesn't reset things, and why.

I love the Paradise Island origin, and her interactions back on it had really taken off with Simone, bringing up that she and her mother don't always see eye to eye but when it comes down to it they're there for one another. Now... her mother's gone. Again. Just when we'd gotten to this great place with the two of them.


Yea, at times to me, JMS seems to look at the fact that he's written so much in multiple forms (Film, TV, Comics, etc) that he has this golden certified "I'm a better and more experienced writer than you are" card, and it's like if someone does what he does, they did it wrong because only he "really knows how to do it properly" which is what really bothers me about his writing.

Other writers who've come from other mediums have always talked about how much respect they have for poeple in this medium, and how they had to learn from them and figure things out, but JMS, though he's been in comics for awhile, this attitude he has here seems to indicate he thinks of himself as a sort of "necessity" for characters and "godsend" so to speak now that he's there. That attitude bugs me. Maybe I'm the only one who gets that from him, and if that's so then that's fine. But when I did get that, it works to make me biased against the writer, rather than wanting to support them.